Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 00:36:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Katinka Hesselink
Subject: Re: On God ...
Hi Miriam, I am a bit hesitant, actually, to go on with this, because I believe that such simple trust and faith can hardly do harm. But well, this is a discussion-list and this topic is quite a logical one to discuss, since really I do not believe in God - at least not a personal one, or one responsible for all that happens in the world. And now I am going to say something that you will probably find to be as frustrating as a God who allows the cruelties of life - that I believe that what happens to us is to a large extent indeed deserved by us. So, in a past life you (though obviously not your personality) acted and lived in such a way that you now deserve the comfort you have. The only way I can soften this approach is by saying that that comfort brings also responsibility to those whom you might help. Though it is always difficult to see precisely what helping is. I know I am probably not lessening the frustration (if there is such), but this is in very short, my opinion on the matter here discussed.
> From: "Mirian M. Costa" <mirq@dg...
> Sure I believe in God - it only happens that I cannot understand why
> He/She permits such suffering for so many innocent creatures, like children,
> old people, sick people, homeless people, animals, etc.
> Every day I pray - and thank Him/Her for allowing me to be so lucky,
> while being unable to understand why others aren't. Surely it is not due to
> any merit of mine; as a matter of fact, I acknowledge that I have so many
> defects and have failed so many times, and yet I, as well as my family
> and many friends, have so much to be thankful for!
My dear Katinka,
> > And now I am going to say something that you will probably find to be as
> frustrating as a God who allows the cruwelties of life - that I believe
> that what happens to us is to a large extent indeed deserved by us.
Thank you for paying attention. As a matter of fact, I think it is logical and fair that what happens to us is deserved by us, but, from my point of view, that would refer only to human beings, not to animals. I am sorry I keep returning to this point, but it is so hard to understand it. Mirian
Date: Sun Nov
19, 2000 3:45am
Subject: Re: On God ...
Dear Mirian and Katinka and all in SGate,
Nice discussion. Although not at all an easy one.
I am not sure, dear Mirian, if I will be of some help.
But I will try an opinion.
Let us suppose that there is a huge evolution going on. And that human beings as some how an evolution from the animal kingdom.
Is this may be true, then there is really no very big difference between superior animals and less developed human beings. At least no big difference in the sense that a human being of a very small evolutionary development is almost as innocent as an animal.
Do you see my point? What I am trying to say is that perhaps everything in Nature is under a BIG LAW. Let us call it Divine Justice. [We could call it also Karna or Law of Action and Reaction etc.]
Therefore, there is nothing outside the great umbrella of the BIG LAW. This Law keeps a, as far as we can see, perfect accountability of all and everything that happens. And for the good and for the bad things, or so called good and bad things, like hapiness-pleasure and sadness-pain etc.
If this is even near the truth, than the animal who are innocent, as they obviously are, are accumulating in their accounts [balance] positive merits for their future. For nothing is lost in this perfect balance of the GREAT LAW. Do you see what I mean?
There is a saying that pain may be necessary, or unavoidable. But poor of those through whom it comes to the world. For their account will surely be loaded with that pain.
As I said, perhaps it was of little help. But I have at least tried.
Thanks to you and Katinka again for bringing that serious and deepest topic. Love to you all,
Date:Wed Nov 22, 2000 12:28pm
Subject: Re: Subject: On God ...
Don't appologize for caring, please.
And as far as the treatment of animals goes. Humanity is horrible in this respect. The animal goes away from this life having known not love, but carelessness, which can hardly be a good start in going forward in evolution. The person who treats animals badly desensitizes him/herself.
Bad karma for the person doing it in two ways. Humanity seems to be very good at acting badly. Again not god doing anything, but human beings responsible.
> From: "Mirian M. Costa" mirq@d...
> My dear Katinka,
> > And now I am going to say something that you will probably find to be
> > frustrating as a God who allows the cruwelties of life - that I
> > that what happens to us is to a large extent indeed deserved by us.
> Thank you for paying attention. As a matter of fact, I think it is logical
> and fair that what happens to us is deserved by us, but, from my point
> of view, that would refer only to human beings, not to animals.
> I am sorry I keep returning to this point, but it is so hard to
> Mirian M. Costa